Should I learn VB.NET or ASP.NET?

Hi,

I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read that
ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do I have the
knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn both
VB.NET and ASP.NET.

Thank you.

TAMTAM,
ASP.NET is a technology, VB.NET is a language. They are not subsets of
either. You need to learn both!

You need to learn ASP.NET as that is the technology used for .NET web sites.
It
defines your web pages (.aspx) & your web services (.asmx).

You also need to learn VB.NET as the underlying programming language for the
ASP.NET.

As ASP.NET needs an underlying language for any server side code. This
language can be VB.NET, C#, or any of the other languages available for
..NET. This underlying language can be intermixed with your web page (.aspx)
or it can be 'code behind' in a standalone file. (.aspx.vb). I prefer the
code behind as its separates your logic from your presentation.

Hope this helps
Jay

"TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
> I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read that
> ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do I have
the
> knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn both
> VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> Thank you.
> TAM
Thank you Herfried. So if I understand correctly, I need to learn both
because they are two different things.

"Herfried K. Wagner" <hirf.nosp@.m.activevb.de> wrote in message
news:OAS3n2vVDHA.2252@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Hello,
> "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> schrieb:
> > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript.
> > I also read that ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if
> > I learn VB.NET first then do I have the knowledge for
> > programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn both
> > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> VB .NET is a *programming language*, ASP .NET a *technology* that uses
> programming languages (like VB .NET, C#, ...). If you are familiar with
> VB .NET, it will take some affort to become familiar with ASP .NET too.
> Regards,
> Herfried K. Wagner
> --
> MVP VB Classic, VB .NET
> http://www.mvps.org/dotnet
Given the difference between VB.NET and ASP.NET, what should I learn first?

"Jay B. Harlow [MVP - Outlook]" <Jay_Harlow@.email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:umLv83vVDHA.532@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> TAM,
> ASP.NET is a technology, VB.NET is a language. They are not subsets of
> either. You need to learn both!
> You need to learn ASP.NET as that is the technology used for .NET web
sites.
> It
> defines your web pages (.aspx) & your web services (.asmx).
> You also need to learn VB.NET as the underlying programming language for
the
> ASP.NET.
> As ASP.NET needs an underlying language for any server side code. This
> language can be VB.NET, C#, or any of the other languages available for
> .NET. This underlying language can be intermixed with your web page
(.aspx)
> or it can be 'code behind' in a standalone file. (.aspx.vb). I prefer the
> code behind as its separates your logic from your presentation.
> Hope this helps
> Jay
> "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Hi,
> > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read that
> > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do I have
> the
> > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn
both
> > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > Thank you.
> > TAM
Hello,

"TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> schrieb:
> Given the difference between VB.NET and ASP.NET,
> what should I learn first?

You should learn VB .NET first. If you have experience in VB .NET, you
can learn ASP .NET.

Regards,
Herfried K. Wagner
--
MVP VB Classic, VB .NET
http://www.mvps.org/dotnet
TAM,
As Armin & Herfried stated, you should learn VB.NET first. Depending on if
you know any programming language or not.

If you know other VB like or OOP languages, you might be able to pickup
enough VB.NET to actually learn ASP.NET first. In this case I would lean
toward at least a quick study of VB.NET & OOP first before attempting to
learn ASP.NET itself.

Hope this helps
Jay

"TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:%231lni7vVDHA.1816@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Given the difference between VB.NET and ASP.NET, what should I learn
first?
>
>
> "Jay B. Harlow [MVP - Outlook]" <Jay_Harlow@.email.msn.com> wrote in
message
> news:umLv83vVDHA.532@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > TAM,
> > ASP.NET is a technology, VB.NET is a language. They are not subsets of
> > either. You need to learn both!
> > You need to learn ASP.NET as that is the technology used for .NET web
> sites.
> > It
> > defines your web pages (.aspx) & your web services (.asmx).
> > You also need to learn VB.NET as the underlying programming language for
> the
> > ASP.NET.
> > As ASP.NET needs an underlying language for any server side code. This
> > language can be VB.NET, C#, or any of the other languages available for
> > .NET. This underlying language can be intermixed with your web page
> (.aspx)
> > or it can be 'code behind' in a standalone file. (.aspx.vb). I prefer
the
> > code behind as its separates your logic from your presentation.
> > Hope this helps
> > Jay
> > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > Hi,
> > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read that
> > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do I
have
> > the
> > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn
> both
> > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > Thank you.
> > > > TAM
> >
ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that you can use from
..NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
So first you need to learn the basics of a language (VB.NET is great) and
then from that base of knowledge you can launch into learning & using the
ASP.NET objects.

--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr, MCSD
http://Steve.Orr.net

"TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
> I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read that
> ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do I have
the
> knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn both
> VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> Thank you.
> TAM
Steve,

I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by learning all about
certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms and then find that
information totally useless if they only wish to create Webforms. The two
(VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by a Webforms
programmer.
I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn languages and
technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What commands should I
learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first, VB.NET or ADO.NET."
Certainly there are certain language constructs which one must understand
before applying themselves to databases, but if their data is in a database
they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and constructs. And one can
produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal Reports using only the
wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill command.
It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page or an entire
Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of VB.NET code.

Regards

"Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that you can use from
> .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> So first you need to learn the basics of a language (VB.NET is great) and
> then from that base of knowledge you can launch into learning & using the
> ASP.NET objects.
> --
> I hope this helps,
> Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> http://Steve.Orr.net
>
> "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Hi,
> > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read that
> > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do I have
> the
> > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn
both
> > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > Thank you.
> > TAM
hello

for learning asp.net
you must know
html
create a web site with ms internet information serveur
programming in VB

for learning VB
you must know
reading !

Pierre
<which can do anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more
Kevin,
Come on man. It's the exact opposite.
First let me say that I am not choosing Winforms over Webforms. They are
for two different things and programming them is quite different.
Everyone knows that a Windows form is not limited by the functions available
to applications running on a web browser. The list of events that fire in
Winforms that do not in Webforms could cover the entire screen.
One of the most major limitations on Webforms is the lack of the Validating
event. This makes it more difficult to do textbox by textbox validation.
Instead, a Webform application uses the Validation controls. Winforms are
not limited by postback or state problems.
ADO.NET applications produced on Winforms require far fewer security
measures. They can even operate using only IP address, thus accessing a
server with no website exposure needed.
Just compare the number of methods, functions and events available on
Winform controls versus Webform controls and you will see that Winforms are
2 and 3 times more robust in programmer control over the users experience.
Again. This is not a Winforms is better than Webforms debate. If I need
ASP.NET Webforms then I will use Webforms. But, chances are I will be using
Flash also because I am disappointed with the lack of control and visual
design options I have otherwise.

"Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
news:e0lsVC2VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I have to go with Steve here. If you were talking about ASP, and the
> extremely limited things you can do with it, I might agree, but we're
> talking about ASP.Net here, which can do anything that a Windows Forms app
> can do, and a lot more. The only area where the 2 technologies don't
overlap
> is the area of UI controls, and since you can embed Windows Forms in
ASP.Net
> pages, well...
> This newsgroup has been inundated, since ASP.Net was first released, with
> ASP "programmers" who were lost when transitioning to a fully-functional,
> fully Object-Oriented programming technology. I have personally known a
> number of VB programmers who are way out of their league now, and having
to
> learn Object-Oriented programming for the first time.
> A programming language is a set of tools for building applications. You
need
> to know how to use the tools before you can build anything with them.
> --
> HTH,
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
> .Net Developer
> http://www.takempis.com
> Complex things are made up of
> lots of simple things.
> "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%23wpGwcyVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Steve,
> > I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by learning all about
> > certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms and then find
> that
> > information totally useless if they only wish to create Webforms. The
two
> > (VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by a Webforms
> > programmer.
> > I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn languages and
> > technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What commands should
I
> > learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first, VB.NET or ADO.NET."
> > Certainly there are certain language constructs which one must
understand
> > before applying themselves to databases, but if their data is in a
> database
> > they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and constructs. And one
> can
> > produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal Reports using only
> the
> > wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill command.
> > It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page or an entire
> > Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of VB.NET code.
> > Regards
> > "Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
> > news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that you can use
> from
> > > .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> > > So first you need to learn the basics of a language (VB.NET is great)
> and
> > > then from that base of knowledge you can launch into learning & using
> the
> > > ASP.NET objects.
> > > > --
> > > I hope this helps,
> > > Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> > > http://Steve.Orr.net
> > > > > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > Hi,
> > > > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read
that
> > > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do I
> have
> > > the
> > > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to learn
> > both
> > > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > TAM
> > > > > >
Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I didn't catch it.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
http://www.takempis.com
Complex things are made up of
lots of simple things.

"Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uD$ntc3VDHA.2476@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> <which can do anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more>
> Kevin,
> Come on man. It's the exact opposite.
> First let me say that I am not choosing Winforms over Webforms. They are
> for two different things and programming them is quite different.
> Everyone knows that a Windows form is not limited by the functions
available
> to applications running on a web browser. The list of events that fire in
> Winforms that do not in Webforms could cover the entire screen.
> One of the most major limitations on Webforms is the lack of the
Validating
> event. This makes it more difficult to do textbox by textbox validation.
> Instead, a Webform application uses the Validation controls. Winforms are
> not limited by postback or state problems.
> ADO.NET applications produced on Winforms require far fewer security
> measures. They can even operate using only IP address, thus accessing a
> server with no website exposure needed.
> Just compare the number of methods, functions and events available on
> Winform controls versus Webform controls and you will see that Winforms
are
> 2 and 3 times more robust in programmer control over the users experience.
> Again. This is not a Winforms is better than Webforms debate. If I need
> ASP.NET Webforms then I will use Webforms. But, chances are I will be
using
> Flash also because I am disappointed with the lack of control and visual
> design options I have otherwise.
>
> "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> news:e0lsVC2VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > I have to go with Steve here. If you were talking about ASP, and the
> > extremely limited things you can do with it, I might agree, but we're
> > talking about ASP.Net here, which can do anything that a Windows Forms
app
> > can do, and a lot more. The only area where the 2 technologies don't
> overlap
> > is the area of UI controls, and since you can embed Windows Forms in
> ASP.Net
> > pages, well...
> > This newsgroup has been inundated, since ASP.Net was first released,
with
> > ASP "programmers" who were lost when transitioning to a
fully-functional,
> > fully Object-Oriented programming technology. I have personally known a
> > number of VB programmers who are way out of their league now, and having
> to
> > learn Object-Oriented programming for the first time.
> > A programming language is a set of tools for building applications. You
> need
> > to know how to use the tools before you can build anything with them.
> > --
> > HTH,
> > Kevin Spencer
> > Microsoft MVP
> > .Net Developer
> > http://www.takempis.com
> > Complex things are made up of
> > lots of simple things.
> > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:%23wpGwcyVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > Steve,
> > > > I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by learning all about
> > > certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms and then
find
> > that
> > > information totally useless if they only wish to create Webforms. The
> two
> > > (VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by a Webforms
> > > programmer.
> > > I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn languages and
> > > technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What commands
should
> I
> > > learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first, VB.NET or
ADO.NET."
> > > Certainly there are certain language constructs which one must
> understand
> > > before applying themselves to databases, but if their data is in a
> > database
> > > they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and constructs. And
one
> > can
> > > produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal Reports using
only
> > the
> > > wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill command.
> > > It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page or an entire
> > > Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of VB.NET code.
> > > > Regards
> > > > "Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
> > > news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that you can
use
> > from
> > > > .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> > > > So first you need to learn the basics of a language (VB.NET is
great)
> > and
> > > > then from that base of knowledge you can launch into learning &
using
> > the
> > > > ASP.NET objects.
> > > > > > --
> > > > I hope this helps,
> > > > Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> > > > http://Steve.Orr.net
> > > > > > > > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read
> that
> > > > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then do
I
> > have
> > > > the
> > > > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to
learn
> > > both
> > > > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > TAM
> > > > > > > > > > > >
Tam,
You can use in ASP.Net almost everything.
VB.Net, C++.net C#.Net, classic VBScript and JScript and xml scripting
languages on the server side .

VBScript and J...Scritp on the client side.

I preffer for efficient coding VB.Net on the Server side and JScript on the
client side.

But that is a choise. There is a free example from Microsoft that uses
VBscript on the serverside, it did bring me first on the total wrong way and
not to disturb you I do not tell wich way.

Cor
Jerry,
First learn to talk, English maybe a dead language in future when everybody
maybe speaks Chineas.
(And in this sentence is more than you think).
Cor
Kevin,

You said. "I might agree, but we're talking about ASP.Net here, which can do
anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more."

Thats simply not true. Have you written any Winforms apps? Webforms is
limited. I thought that was clear in my previous message.

"Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
news:uxpKc#3VDHA.1780@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I didn't catch it.
> --
> HTH,
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
> .Net Developer
> http://www.takempis.com
> Complex things are made up of
> lots of simple things.
> "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:uD$ntc3VDHA.2476@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > <which can do anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more>
> > Kevin,
> > Come on man. It's the exact opposite.
> > First let me say that I am not choosing Winforms over Webforms. They
are
> > for two different things and programming them is quite different.
> > Everyone knows that a Windows form is not limited by the functions
> available
> > to applications running on a web browser. The list of events that fire
in
> > Winforms that do not in Webforms could cover the entire screen.
> > One of the most major limitations on Webforms is the lack of the
> Validating
> > event. This makes it more difficult to do textbox by textbox validation.
> > Instead, a Webform application uses the Validation controls. Winforms
are
> > not limited by postback or state problems.
> > ADO.NET applications produced on Winforms require far fewer security
> > measures. They can even operate using only IP address, thus accessing a
> > server with no website exposure needed.
> > Just compare the number of methods, functions and events available on
> > Winform controls versus Webform controls and you will see that Winforms
> are
> > 2 and 3 times more robust in programmer control over the users
experience.
> > Again. This is not a Winforms is better than Webforms debate. If I
need
> > ASP.NET Webforms then I will use Webforms. But, chances are I will be
> using
> > Flash also because I am disappointed with the lack of control and visual
> > design options I have otherwise.
> > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > news:e0lsVC2VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > I have to go with Steve here. If you were talking about ASP, and the
> > > extremely limited things you can do with it, I might agree, but we're
> > > talking about ASP.Net here, which can do anything that a Windows Forms
> app
> > > can do, and a lot more. The only area where the 2 technologies don't
> > overlap
> > > is the area of UI controls, and since you can embed Windows Forms in
> > ASP.Net
> > > pages, well...
> > > > This newsgroup has been inundated, since ASP.Net was first released,
> with
> > > ASP "programmers" who were lost when transitioning to a
> fully-functional,
> > > fully Object-Oriented programming technology. I have personally known
a
> > > number of VB programmers who are way out of their league now, and
having
> > to
> > > learn Object-Oriented programming for the first time.
> > > > A programming language is a set of tools for building applications.
You
> > need
> > > to know how to use the tools before you can build anything with them.
> > > > --
> > > HTH,
> > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > Microsoft MVP
> > > .Net Developer
> > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > Complex things are made up of
> > > lots of simple things.
> > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:%23wpGwcyVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > Steve,
> > > > > > I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by learning all
about
> > > > certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms and then
> find
> > > that
> > > > information totally useless if they only wish to create Webforms.
The
> > two
> > > > (VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by a
Webforms
> > > > programmer.
> > > > I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn languages and
> > > > technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What commands
> should
> > I
> > > > learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first, VB.NET or
> ADO.NET."
> > > > Certainly there are certain language constructs which one must
> > understand
> > > > before applying themselves to databases, but if their data is in a
> > > database
> > > > they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and constructs. And
> one
> > > can
> > > > produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal Reports using
> only
> > > the
> > > > wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill command.
> > > > It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page or an
entire
> > > > Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of VB.NET
code.
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > "Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that you can
> use
> > > from
> > > > > .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> > > > > So first you need to learn the basics of a language (VB.NET is
> great)
> > > and
> > > > > then from that base of knowledge you can launch into learning &
> using
> > > the
> > > > > ASP.NET objects.
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > I hope this helps,
> > > > > Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> > > > > http://Steve.Orr.net
> > > > > > > > > > > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also read
> > that
> > > > > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then
do
> I
> > > have
> > > > > the
> > > > > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to
> learn
> > > > both
> > > > > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > > TAM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Of course I have written WinForms apps. I've written WinForms apps,
Services, HttpHandlers, Class Libraries, and Web Applications. I stand by my
statement. If you can't make an ASP.Net app do all that a WinForms app can
do, that's your limitation.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
http://www.takempis.com
Complex things are made up of
lots of simple things.

"Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:O9QQka4VDHA.1180@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Kevin,
> You said. "I might agree, but we're talking about ASP.Net here, which can
do
> anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more."
> Thats simply not true. Have you written any Winforms apps? Webforms is
> limited. I thought that was clear in my previous message.
> "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> news:uxpKc#3VDHA.1780@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I didn't catch it.
> > --
> > HTH,
> > Kevin Spencer
> > Microsoft MVP
> > .Net Developer
> > http://www.takempis.com
> > Complex things are made up of
> > lots of simple things.
> > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:uD$ntc3VDHA.2476@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > <which can do anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot
more>
> > > > Kevin,
> > > Come on man. It's the exact opposite.
> > > First let me say that I am not choosing Winforms over Webforms. They
> are
> > > for two different things and programming them is quite different.
> > > Everyone knows that a Windows form is not limited by the functions
> > available
> > > to applications running on a web browser. The list of events that
fire
> in
> > > Winforms that do not in Webforms could cover the entire screen.
> > > One of the most major limitations on Webforms is the lack of the
> > Validating
> > > event. This makes it more difficult to do textbox by textbox
validation.
> > > Instead, a Webform application uses the Validation controls. Winforms

> are
> > > not limited by postback or state problems.
> > > ADO.NET applications produced on Winforms require far fewer security
> > > measures. They can even operate using only IP address, thus accessing
a
> > > server with no website exposure needed.
> > > Just compare the number of methods, functions and events available on
> > > Winform controls versus Webform controls and you will see that
Winforms
> > are
> > > 2 and 3 times more robust in programmer control over the users
> experience.
> > > Again. This is not a Winforms is better than Webforms debate. If I
> need
> > > ASP.NET Webforms then I will use Webforms. But, chances are I will be
> > using
> > > Flash also because I am disappointed with the lack of control and
visual
> > > design options I have otherwise.
> > > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > news:e0lsVC2VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > > I have to go with Steve here. If you were talking about ASP, and the
> > > > extremely limited things you can do with it, I might agree, but
we're
> > > > talking about ASP.Net here, which can do anything that a Windows
Forms
> > app
> > > > can do, and a lot more. The only area where the 2 technologies don't
> > > overlap
> > > > is the area of UI controls, and since you can embed Windows Forms in
> > > ASP.Net
> > > > pages, well...
> > > > > > This newsgroup has been inundated, since ASP.Net was first released,
> > with
> > > > ASP "programmers" who were lost when transitioning to a
> > fully-functional,
> > > > fully Object-Oriented programming technology. I have personally
known
> a
> > > > number of VB programmers who are way out of their league now, and
> having
> > > to
> > > > learn Object-Oriented programming for the first time.
> > > > > > A programming language is a set of tools for building applications.
> You
> > > need
> > > > to know how to use the tools before you can build anything with
them.
> > > > > > --
> > > > HTH,
> > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > .Net Developer
> > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:%23wpGwcyVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by learning all
> about
> > > > > certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms and then
> > find
> > > > that
> > > > > information totally useless if they only wish to create Webforms.
> The
> > > two
> > > > > (VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by a
> Webforms
> > > > > programmer.
> > > > > I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn languages and
> > > > > technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What commands
> > should
> > > I
> > > > > learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first, VB.NET or
> > ADO.NET."
> > > > > Certainly there are certain language constructs which one must
> > > understand
> > > > > before applying themselves to databases, but if their data is in a
> > > > database
> > > > > they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and constructs.
And
> > one
> > > > can
> > > > > produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal Reports
using
> > only
> > > > the
> > > > > wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill command.
> > > > > It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page or an
> entire
> > > > > Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of VB.NET
> code.
> > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > "Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that you
can
> > use
> > > > from
> > > > > > .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> > > > > > So first you need to learn the basics of a language (VB.NET is
> > great)
> > > > and
> > > > > > then from that base of knowledge you can launch into learning &
> > using
> > > > the
> > > > > > ASP.NET objects.
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > I hope this helps,
> > > > > > Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> > > > > > http://Steve.Orr.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I also
read
> > > that
> > > > > > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first then
> do
> > I
> > > > have
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I need to
> > learn
> > > > > both
> > > > > > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > TAM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Jerry,
Your globe with a Window form is sometimes not furterh than next door, with
a WebForm it is the world.
Cor
Steve,
I asume that you forget that a lot of HTML programmers (and I mean the
programmers) know the document and the window object model. Do you know it
with all the Netscape and other variants? That is a hard school.
Cor
Listen, Jerry. All of the things you mentioned can be done in an ASP.Net
app. The facts that you (1) don't know how to do them, and (2) therefore,
assume that you can't, say nothing about the technology. It says something
about your limitations, which is what I stated earlier. I'm not going to
continue this stupid debate, nor answer any of your arguments. There is no
profit in it. This is a forum for helping people, and that's what I'm here
to do.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
http://www.takempis.com
Complex things are made up of
lots of simple things.

"Jerry III" <jerryiii@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ebbAsa9VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Late to the discussion but how exactly would you read user's files to
> process them? Would you upload it to the server (couple megs over a
modem),
> process and have the user download it (and replace their original)? How
> would you print reports or mailing labels? Control the layout of your UI
> (remember that even IE can be set to ignore your styles)? How do you use
it
> offline (when your ISP has an outage for example)? There's just too many
> things you can't do in an ASP.NET application. They're two different
> technologies meant to do two different things.
> Jerry
> "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> news:%23eIFDj4VDHA.392@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Of course I have written WinForms apps. I've written WinForms apps,
> > Services, HttpHandlers, Class Libraries, and Web Applications. I stand
by
> my
> > statement. If you can't make an ASP.Net app do all that a WinForms app
can
> > do, that's your limitation.
> > --
> > HTH,
> > Kevin Spencer
> > Microsoft MVP
> > .Net Developer
> > http://www.takempis.com
> > Complex things are made up of
> > lots of simple things.
> > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:O9QQka4VDHA.1180@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > Kevin,
> > > > You said. "I might agree, but we're talking about ASP.Net here, which
> can
> > do
> > > anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more."
> > > > Thats simply not true. Have you written any Winforms apps? Webforms
is
> > > limited. I thought that was clear in my previous message.
> > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uxpKc#3VDHA.1780@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I didn't catch it.
> > > > > > --
> > > > HTH,
> > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > .Net Developer
> > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:uD$ntc3VDHA.2476@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > > <which can do anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot
> > more>
> > > > > > > > Kevin,
> > > > > Come on man. It's the exact opposite.
> > > > > First let me say that I am not choosing Winforms over Webforms.
> They
> > > are
> > > > > for two different things and programming them is quite different.
> > > > > Everyone knows that a Windows form is not limited by the functions
> > > > available
> > > > > to applications running on a web browser. The list of events that
> > fire
> > > in
> > > > > Winforms that do not in Webforms could cover the entire screen.
> > > > > One of the most major limitations on Webforms is the lack of the
> > > > Validating
> > > > > event. This makes it more difficult to do textbox by textbox
> > validation.
> > > > > Instead, a Webform application uses the Validation controls.
> Winforms
> > > are
> > > > > not limited by postback or state problems.
> > > > > ADO.NET applications produced on Winforms require far fewer
security
> > > > > measures. They can even operate using only IP address, thus
> accessing
> > a
> > > > > server with no website exposure needed.
> > > > > Just compare the number of methods, functions and events available
> on
> > > > > Winform controls versus Webform controls and you will see that
> > Winforms
> > > > are
> > > > > 2 and 3 times more robust in programmer control over the users
> > > experience.
> > > > > Again. This is not a Winforms is better than Webforms debate. If
I
> > > need
> > > > > ASP.NET Webforms then I will use Webforms. But, chances are I will
> be
> > > > using
> > > > > Flash also because I am disappointed with the lack of control and
> > visual
> > > > > design options I have otherwise.
> > > > > > > > > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:e0lsVC2VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > I have to go with Steve here. If you were talking about ASP, and
> the
> > > > > > extremely limited things you can do with it, I might agree, but
> > we're
> > > > > > talking about ASP.Net here, which can do anything that a Windows
> > Forms
> > > > app
> > > > > > can do, and a lot more. The only area where the 2 technologies
> don't
> > > > > overlap
> > > > > > is the area of UI controls, and since you can embed Windows
Forms
> in
> > > > > ASP.Net
> > > > > > pages, well...
> > > > > > > > > > This newsgroup has been inundated, since ASP.Net was first
> released,
> > > > with
> > > > > > ASP "programmers" who were lost when transitioning to a
> > > > fully-functional,
> > > > > > fully Object-Oriented programming technology. I have personally
> > known
> > > a
> > > > > > number of VB programmers who are way out of their league now,
and
> > > having
> > > > > to
> > > > > > learn Object-Oriented programming for the first time.
> > > > > > > > > > A programming language is a set of tools for building
> applications.
> > > You
> > > > > need
> > > > > > to know how to use the tools before you can build anything with
> > them.
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > HTH,
> > > > > > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > > > .Net Developer
> > > > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:%23wpGwcyVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by learning
all
> > > about
> > > > > > > certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms and
> then
> > > > find
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > information totally useless if they only wish to create
> Webforms.
> > > The
> > > > > two
> > > > > > > (VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by a
> > > Webforms
> > > > > > > programmer.
> > > > > > > I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn languages
> and
> > > > > > > technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What
> commands
> > > > should
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first, VB.NET or
> > > > ADO.NET."
> > > > > > > Certainly there are certain language constructs which one must
> > > > > understand
> > > > > > > before applying themselves to databases, but if their data is
in
> a
> > > > > > database
> > > > > > > they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and constructs.
> > And
> > > > one
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal Reports
> > using
> > > > only
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill
> command.
> > > > > > > It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page or
an
> > > entire
> > > > > > > Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of
VB.NET
> > > code.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that
you
> > can
> > > > use
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> > > > > > > > So first you need to learn the basics of a language (VB.NET
is
> > > > great)
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > then from that base of knowledge you can launch into
learning
> &
> > > > using
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > ASP.NET objects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > I hope this helps,
> > > > > > > > Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> > > > > > > > http://Steve.Orr.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I
also
> > read
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET first
> then
> > > do
> > > > I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I
need
> to
> > > > learn
> > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TAM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
<< All of the things you mentioned can be done in an ASP.Net >
I am reminded of a conversation that I had with a schizophrenic man who
claimed that the sky was always purple.
Just learn the differences between "System.Web.UI" and
"System.Windows.Forms" and you will have a better handle on what I am
talking about. They are as different as night is to day. And I emphasize I
LIKE ASP.NET.
All you have offered is the repetition of your statement that you can do
everything with ASP.NET.
Here's a challenge for you then. Take an extra Lithium and create an
ASP.NET page which duplicates the MDI form of Visual Studio .NET. Then when
you are a millionaire I will admit that you are right.

"Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
news:u#f9EoCWDHA.2364@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Listen, Jerry. All of the things you mentioned can be done in an ASP.Net
> app. The facts that you (1) don't know how to do them, and (2) therefore,
> assume that you can't, say nothing about the technology. It says something
> about your limitations, which is what I stated earlier. I'm not going to
> continue this stupid debate, nor answer any of your arguments. There is no
> profit in it. This is a forum for helping people, and that's what I'm here
> to do.
> --
> HTH,
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
> .Net Developer
> http://www.takempis.com
> Complex things are made up of
> lots of simple things.
> "Jerry III" <jerryiii@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ebbAsa9VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > Late to the discussion but how exactly would you read user's files to
> > process them? Would you upload it to the server (couple megs over a
> modem),
> > process and have the user download it (and replace their original)? How
> > would you print reports or mailing labels? Control the layout of your UI
> > (remember that even IE can be set to ignore your styles)? How do you use
> it
> > offline (when your ISP has an outage for example)? There's just too many
> > things you can't do in an ASP.NET application. They're two different
> > technologies meant to do two different things.
> > Jerry
> > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > news:%23eIFDj4VDHA.392@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > Of course I have written WinForms apps. I've written WinForms apps,
> > > Services, HttpHandlers, Class Libraries, and Web Applications. I stand
> by
> > my
> > > statement. If you can't make an ASP.Net app do all that a WinForms app
> can
> > > do, that's your limitation.
> > > > --
> > > HTH,
> > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > Microsoft MVP
> > > .Net Developer
> > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > Complex things are made up of
> > > lots of simple things.
> > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:O9QQka4VDHA.1180@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > Kevin,
> > > > > > You said. "I might agree, but we're talking about ASP.Net here,
which
> > can
> > > do
> > > > anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more."
> > > > > > Thats simply not true. Have you written any Winforms apps? Webforms
> is
> > > > limited. I thought that was clear in my previous message.
> > > > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:uxpKc#3VDHA.1780@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I didn't catch
it.
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > HTH,
> > > > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > > .Net Developer
> > > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:uD$ntc3VDHA.2476@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > <which can do anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a
lot
> > > more>
> > > > > > > > > > Kevin,
> > > > > > Come on man. It's the exact opposite.
> > > > > > First let me say that I am not choosing Winforms over Webforms.
> > They
> > > > are
> > > > > > for two different things and programming them is quite
different.
> > > > > > Everyone knows that a Windows form is not limited by the
functions
> > > > > available
> > > > > > to applications running on a web browser. The list of events
that
> > > fire
> > > > in
> > > > > > Winforms that do not in Webforms could cover the entire screen.
> > > > > > One of the most major limitations on Webforms is the lack of the
> > > > > Validating
> > > > > > event. This makes it more difficult to do textbox by textbox
> > > validation.
> > > > > > Instead, a Webform application uses the Validation controls.
> > Winforms
> > > > > are
> > > > > > not limited by postback or state problems.
> > > > > > ADO.NET applications produced on Winforms require far fewer
> security
> > > > > > measures. They can even operate using only IP address, thus
> > accessing
> > > a
> > > > > > server with no website exposure needed.
> > > > > > Just compare the number of methods, functions and events
available
> > on
> > > > > > Winform controls versus Webform controls and you will see that
> > > Winforms
> > > > > are
> > > > > > 2 and 3 times more robust in programmer control over the users
> > > > experience.
> > > > > > Again. This is not a Winforms is better than Webforms debate.
If
> I
> > > > need
> > > > > > ASP.NET Webforms then I will use Webforms. But, chances are I
will
> > be
> > > > > using
> > > > > > Flash also because I am disappointed with the lack of control
and
> > > visual
> > > > > > design options I have otherwise.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:e0lsVC2VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > I have to go with Steve here. If you were talking about ASP,
and
> > the
> > > > > > > extremely limited things you can do with it, I might agree,
but
> > > we're
> > > > > > > talking about ASP.Net here, which can do anything that a
Windows
> > > Forms
> > > > > app
> > > > > > > can do, and a lot more. The only area where the 2 technologies
> > don't
> > > > > > overlap
> > > > > > > is the area of UI controls, and since you can embed Windows
> Forms
> > in
> > > > > > ASP.Net
> > > > > > > pages, well...
> > > > > > > > > > > > This newsgroup has been inundated, since ASP.Net was first
> > released,
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > ASP "programmers" who were lost when transitioning to a
> > > > > fully-functional,
> > > > > > > fully Object-Oriented programming technology. I have
personally
> > > known
> > > > a
> > > > > > > number of VB programmers who are way out of their league now,
> and
> > > > having
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > learn Object-Oriented programming for the first time.
> > > > > > > > > > > > A programming language is a set of tools for building
> > applications.
> > > > You
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > to know how to use the tools before you can build anything
with
> > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > HTH,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > > > > .Net Developer
> > > > > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:%23wpGwcyVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by learning
> all
> > > > about
> > > > > > > > certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms
and
> > then
> > > > > find
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > information totally useless if they only wish to create
> > Webforms.
> > > > The
> > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > (VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by a
> > > > Webforms
> > > > > > > > programmer.
> > > > > > > > I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn
languages
> > and
> > > > > > > > technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What
> > commands
> > > > > should
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first, VB.NET
or
> > > > > ADO.NET."
> > > > > > > > Certainly there are certain language constructs which one
must
> > > > > > understand
> > > > > > > > before applying themselves to databases, but if their data
is
> in
> > a
> > > > > > > database
> > > > > > > > they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and
constructs.
> > > And
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal
Reports
> > > using
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill
> > command.
> > > > > > > > It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page or
> an
> > > > entire
> > > > > > > > Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of
> VB.NET
> > > > code.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > > ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools) that
> you
> > > can
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> > > > > > > > > So first you need to learn the basics of a language
(VB.NET
> is
> > > > > great)
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > then from that base of knowledge you can launch into
> learning
> > &
> > > > > using
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > ASP.NET objects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > I hope this helps,
> > > > > > > > > Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> > > > > > > > > http://Steve.Orr.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I
> also
> > > read
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET
first
> > then
> > > > do
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I
> need
> > to
> > > > > learn
> > > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TAM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Does it has another colour?
Maybe Microsoft Grey
I would like Kevin to enlighten us and show me how to enumerate client's
printers and get their setup (DPI, margins and so on) in ASP.NET. Kevin says
he's here to help yet he offers absolutely no proof of what you're saying.
Just saying that it's our limitations doesn't make it true no matter how
many times he says it.

Jerry

"Jerry Lanphear" <jerrylan@.qwest.net> wrote in message
news:O4njpDKWDHA.2100@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> << All of the things you mentioned can be done in an ASP.Net >>
> I am reminded of a conversation that I had with a schizophrenic man who
> claimed that the sky was always purple.
> Just learn the differences between "System.Web.UI" and
> "System.Windows.Forms" and you will have a better handle on what I am
> talking about. They are as different as night is to day. And I emphasize
I
> LIKE ASP.NET.
> All you have offered is the repetition of your statement that you can do
> everything with ASP.NET.
> Here's a challenge for you then. Take an extra Lithium and create an
> ASP.NET page which duplicates the MDI form of Visual Studio .NET. Then
when
> you are a millionaire I will admit that you are right.
>
> "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> news:u#f9EoCWDHA.2364@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Listen, Jerry. All of the things you mentioned can be done in an ASP.Net
> > app. The facts that you (1) don't know how to do them, and (2)
therefore,
> > assume that you can't, say nothing about the technology. It says
something
> > about your limitations, which is what I stated earlier. I'm not going to
> > continue this stupid debate, nor answer any of your arguments. There is
no
> > profit in it. This is a forum for helping people, and that's what I'm
here
> > to do.
> > --
> > HTH,
> > Kevin Spencer
> > Microsoft MVP
> > .Net Developer
> > http://www.takempis.com
> > Complex things are made up of
> > lots of simple things.
> > "Jerry III" <jerryiii@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ebbAsa9VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > Late to the discussion but how exactly would you read user's files to
> > > process them? Would you upload it to the server (couple megs over a
> > modem),
> > > process and have the user download it (and replace their original)?
How
> > > would you print reports or mailing labels? Control the layout of your
UI
> > > (remember that even IE can be set to ignore your styles)? How do you
use
> > it
> > > offline (when your ISP has an outage for example)? There's just too
many
> > > things you can't do in an ASP.NET application. They're two different
> > > technologies meant to do two different things.
> > > > Jerry
> > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > news:%23eIFDj4VDHA.392@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > Of course I have written WinForms apps. I've written WinForms apps,
> > > > Services, HttpHandlers, Class Libraries, and Web Applications. I
stand
> > by
> > > my
> > > > statement. If you can't make an ASP.Net app do all that a WinForms
app
> > can
> > > > do, that's your limitation.
> > > > > > --
> > > > HTH,
> > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > .Net Developer
> > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:O9QQka4VDHA.1180@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Kevin,
> > > > > > > > You said. "I might agree, but we're talking about ASP.Net here,
> which
> > > can
> > > > do
> > > > > anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a lot more."
> > > > > > > > Thats simply not true. Have you written any Winforms apps?
Webforms
> > is
> > > > > limited. I thought that was clear in my previous message.
> > > > > > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:uxpKc#3VDHA.1780@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I didn't catch
> it.
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > HTH,
> > > > > > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > > > .Net Developer
> > > > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:uD$ntc3VDHA.2476@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > <which can do anything that a Windows Forms app can do, and a
> lot
> > > > more>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin,
> > > > > > > Come on man. It's the exact opposite.
> > > > > > > First let me say that I am not choosing Winforms over
Webforms.
> > > They
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > for two different things and programming them is quite
> different.
> > > > > > > Everyone knows that a Windows form is not limited by the
> functions
> > > > > > available
> > > > > > > to applications running on a web browser. The list of events
> that
> > > > fire
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > Winforms that do not in Webforms could cover the entire
screen.
> > > > > > > One of the most major limitations on Webforms is the lack of
the
> > > > > > Validating
> > > > > > > event. This makes it more difficult to do textbox by textbox
> > > > validation.
> > > > > > > Instead, a Webform application uses the Validation controls.
> > > Winforms
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > not limited by postback or state problems.
> > > > > > > ADO.NET applications produced on Winforms require far fewer
> > security
> > > > > > > measures. They can even operate using only IP address, thus
> > > accessing
> > > > a
> > > > > > > server with no website exposure needed.
> > > > > > > Just compare the number of methods, functions and events
> available
> > > on
> > > > > > > Winform controls versus Webform controls and you will see that
> > > > Winforms
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > 2 and 3 times more robust in programmer control over the users
> > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > Again. This is not a Winforms is better than Webforms debate.
> If
> > I
> > > > > need
> > > > > > > ASP.NET Webforms then I will use Webforms. But, chances are I
> will
> > > be
> > > > > > using
> > > > > > > Flash also because I am disappointed with the lack of control
> and
> > > > visual
> > > > > > > design options I have otherwise.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:e0lsVC2VDHA.1676@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > I have to go with Steve here. If you were talking about ASP,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > > > extremely limited things you can do with it, I might agree,
> but
> > > > we're
> > > > > > > > talking about ASP.Net here, which can do anything that a
> Windows
> > > > Forms
> > > > > > app
> > > > > > > > can do, and a lot more. The only area where the 2
technologies
> > > don't
> > > > > > > overlap
> > > > > > > > is the area of UI controls, and since you can embed Windows
> > Forms
> > > in
> > > > > > > ASP.Net
> > > > > > > > pages, well...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This newsgroup has been inundated, since ASP.Net was first
> > > released,
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > ASP "programmers" who were lost when transitioning to a
> > > > > > fully-functional,
> > > > > > > > fully Object-Oriented programming technology. I have
> personally
> > > > known
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > number of VB programmers who are way out of their league
now,
> > and
> > > > > having
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > learn Object-Oriented programming for the first time.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A programming language is a set of tools for building
> > > applications.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > to know how to use the tools before you can build anything
> with
> > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > HTH,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin Spencer
> > > > > > > > Microsoft MVP
> > > > > > > > .Net Developer
> > > > > > > > http://www.takempis.com
> > > > > > > > Complex things are made up of
> > > > > > > > lots of simple things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Jerry" <JerryOfBorg@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:%23wpGwcyVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't totally agree. One might learn "VB.NET" by
learning
> > all
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > certain events and processes which only occur in Winforms
> and
> > > then
> > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > information totally useless if they only wish to create
> > > Webforms.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > > (VB and ASP.NET) will need to be learned simultaneously by
a
> > > > > Webforms
> > > > > > > > > programmer.
> > > > > > > > > I really hate these distinctions. One has to learn
> languages
> > > and
> > > > > > > > > technologies by saying "What do I want to do" not "What
> > > commands
> > > > > > should
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > learn." Its like saying "What should I learn first,
VB.NET
> or
> > > > > > ADO.NET."
> > > > > > > > > Certainly there are certain language constructs which one
> must
> > > > > > > understand
> > > > > > > > > before applying themselves to databases, but if their data
> is
> > in
> > > a
> > > > > > > > database
> > > > > > > > > they are going to need to use ADO.NET commands and
> constructs.
> > > > And
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > produce collections, datasets, RowFilters and Crystal
> Reports
> > > > using
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > wizards and hardly code more than "VB.NET" than the Fill
> > > command.
> > > > > > > > > It might be argued that one could produce an ASP.NET page
or
> > an
> > > > > entire
> > > > > > > > > Website using Visual Studio and code only a few lines of
> > VB.NET
> > > > > code.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <Steve@.Orr.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:#khDm1wVDHA.1744@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > > > ASP.NET is a set of objects (think of them as tools)
that
> > you
> > > > can
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > .NET programming languages such as VB.NET and C#
> > > > > > > > > > So first you need to learn the basics of a language
> (VB.NET
> > is
> > > > > > great)
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > then from that base of knowledge you can launch into
> > learning
> > > &
> > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > ASP.NET objects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > I hope this helps,
> > > > > > > > > > Steve C. Orr, MCSD
> > > > > > > > > > http://Steve.Orr.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "TAM" <tmphotography@.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > news:%23pqcNzvVDHA.2016@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read that ASP.NET uses VB.NET instead of VBScript. I
> > also
> > > > read
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > ASP.NET is a subset of VB.NET. So if I learn VB.NET
> first
> > > then
> > > > > do
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > knowledge for programming ASP.NET applications or do I
> > need
> > > to
> > > > > > learn
> > > > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > > > > VB.NET and ASP.NET.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TAM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >